E306 - Jamal Ahmed, CEO of Kazient Privacy and AI Experts, and Privacy Pros Academy
[00:00] Debbie Reynolds: The personal views expressed by our podcast guests are their own and are not legal advice or official statements by their organizations.
[00:13] Hello, my name is Debbie Reynolds. They call me the Data Diva. This is the Data Diva Talks Privacy podcast where we discuss data privacy issues with industry leaders around the world with information the business needs to know.
[00:25] Now,
[00:26] I have a very special guest on the show, all the way from England.
[00:32] This is Jamal Ahmed.
[00:34] He's a dear friend of mine and a colleague across the pond,
[00:39] the leader of Kzient Privacy and AI Expert Privacy Pros Academy,
[00:45] and he's a privacy and AI governance strategist. Welcome.
[00:50] Jamal Ahmed: Thank you so much for having me back. My dear friend. I'm so excited to have another conversation with you.
[00:56] Debbie Reynolds: Yeah, I'm so happy to have this call with you and have this conversation with you.
[01:02] You have been such a whirlwind, I believe,
[01:07] in the privacy and data world. You have been such a positive influence on so many people.
[01:13] So many people have even that you didn't even know about have reached out to me and told me stories about your kindness toward them and how you really influenced them in their careers and privacy and data protection.
[01:29] You've been on the show before, so people definitely listen. I'm have people listen to your other episode, which was phenomenal. It's actually one of our best episodes we've ever had on our podcast and we've had over a million downloads of the podcast, so it's been very popular.
[01:44] But I want to talk to you about privacy and AI.
[01:50] So we know privacy. A lot of people have gotten into privacy because they were interested in protecting people. They're interested in moving their careers into a different direction. And I feel like right now is the opportunity for people who have those skills to be able to add AI into that skill set.
[02:09] What are your thoughts?
[02:11] Jamal Ahmed: Oh, I agree wholeheartedly and I couldn't agree more even if I tried. This is the biggest career opportunity we're going to see in a decade.
[02:20] Everyone will remember back to 2018 when GDPR came in and this whole new privacy industry was pretty much born overnight.
[02:27] Now, if you think about data and privacy,
[02:31] data is limited to personal information,
[02:33] mainly concerned with the data governance team. Yes, legal, risk, compliance, all are interested, but mainly it was data governance that was we were concerned with as companies.
[02:43] But when you look at AI,
[02:46] AI touches every department, it touches every system. It's going to touch pretty much every part of every organization.
[02:53] And the opportunity there is huge. I was at London Tech Week not too long ago and they were saying across the. Across the world. 97% of businesses have either adopted AI or are thinking about adopting AI.
[03:07] That means 97% of businesses will need help to make sure that what they're doing is done safely or what they're doing is done ethically, and it's done compliantly. And most of all, that they can actually prove that.
[03:19] So there's a huge opportunity, not just for privacy professionals, but from professionals from all backgrounds. I've been speaking to project managers, analysts, people with technical backgrounds, people from marketing. Everyone is seeing that AI is going to revolutionize the way things are being done.
[03:36] And as privacy professionals, naturally, a lot of that responsibility is going to fall to us and is already falling to us and the ones that are kind of burying their head in the sand because it sounds too complicated.
[03:47] The challenge is,
[03:49] unless you remain relevant over the next couple of years, you might find that the market no longer has a space for you. And so whether we like it or not, whether we want to make the most of the opportunity or not to survive,
[04:00] not just to thrive,
[04:02] we need to make sure that we understand the language of AI governance, that we're fluent when it comes to AI literacy,
[04:07] and that we can support the organizations, get to a place where they can adopt these AI systems, and we can make sure that we're part of the conversation when it comes to doing those things safely, ethically, and responsibly.
[04:21] Debbie Reynolds: Very good.
[04:22] What is your advice to people? Let's say they're in a privacy role right now and they're interested in AI,
[04:28] and maybe they're at a company right now. How would you recommend that they lean into AI?
[04:34] Jamal Ahmed: Yeah, great question. I think before we even learn about governing AI, we need to learn the fundamentals of AI itself. Like, what is artificial intelligence? How does it work? What are the different types of machine learning,
[04:47] the fact that it only either predicts something or generate something, how things work,
[04:52] what the capabilities are, but also more importantly, what the limitations are. So I would say start off there. Start off with trying to understand the basic components, and then once you understand that, it becomes much easier to govern it because you understand how AI works.
[05:06] I was having a conversation earlier this week, and I was saying people are not realizing that they need to adapt the way we do things.
[05:15] So previously when we would do things, we would add something else on. But when we're adopting AI, it's changing the way things are done. And so we need to also change the way we look at how we govern this and the processes around it.
[05:27] It's no good just creating a policy and saying this is going to take care of it, because the way the business does things, everything has pretty much changed. So we need to make sure that we're adapting and understanding and keeping our eye out for what is going on around us,
[05:40] and not just in our business, but in the wider industry as well.
[05:43] Debbie Reynolds: Absolutely.
[05:44] And you have a book out called the Easy Peasy Guide to the EU AI Act. I want you to talk a little bit about that.
[05:52] I actually wrote the foreword to the book. I was honored that you asked me to do so.
[05:57] It's funny because I saw people's banners and I had my picture on it. I was like, oh, my God, my picture's there.
[06:04] Jamal Ahmed: So, first of all, thank you so much for writing the forward. It's such a privilege and an honor to have such a dear friend in writing the forward and be part of that book and that whole book or journey as well.
[06:15] Especially because of how supportive you were with my first book and all the attention that we got around that and all of the support that you've been giving me over the years.
[06:23] And when it's like a technology and data protection and data privacy,
[06:27] I couldn't think of a better person to actually be the one who writes the forward. So I was delighted that you actually agreed. And the forward is absolutely beautiful. I've had so many people respond to me saying, oh, the forward is great.
[06:40] The forward is great.
[06:41] I've been telling them, go and tell them.
[06:42] I don't know if they've been too shy to come and say that to you or if they've connected with you. But thank you so much for adding that to the book as well.
[06:50] Oh, thank you.
[06:51] Debbie Reynolds: That's so sweet. That's so sweet. I was honored to do it.
[06:54] You know, I feel like you're a visionary very much. You're a trailblazer.
[06:59] You look far ahead where a lot of people are sort of looking backwards. Yeah, you're looking forward and people are looking in the rearview mirror. And I think that's really good thing about you.
[07:10] But I think one thing that people are confused about, about, especially folks who don't understand the way legislation,
[07:17] regulation flows in Europe,
[07:21] they don't really understand the connection.
[07:23] Like, why is a privacy person talking about AI and the EU AI act and how that,
[07:30] like, for example, it doesn't replace any of the other data protection, other laws. But a lot of the regulation in the EU is kind of like a puzzle piece that fits together.
[07:40] But can you explain that?
[07:41] Jamal Ahmed: That is a great question. That is a question that a Lot of people are also pondering about.
[07:46] So you've got these really comprehensive regulations in Europe and in 2018,
[07:52] well, in 2016, we were gifted with the General Data Protection Regulation.
[07:57] And that basically said, hey, if you are an organization that is handling any information that could directly or indirectly identify a natural person,
[08:08] and you are based in Europe, or you're not in Europe, but you're offering goods and services or monitoring people in Europe, then this regulation applies to you. So there was this extraterritorial scope and that created privacy professionals.
[08:20] So they're dealing with the most comprehensive regulation that we've seen up until that point. And it became the gold standard.
[08:28] A lot of other countries and jurisdictions around the world, they use the GDPR as kind of like inspiration to come up with their own.
[08:35] In Canada, they updated theirs. In the US you've got states bringing in their own versions of data privacy laws inspired by the gdpr. In the gcc, you've got the pdpl.
[08:44] So around the world we can see that this set a precedent for people and navigating those challenges around what you can and what you can't do, what's prohibited, what are the mitigations, what are all the assessments and documentations we need to have has been a challenging part of what data protection or privacy professionals have been doing.
[09:05] And so when a new law comes in, the world's first comprehensive law, and a new piece of technology, AI, artificial intelligence,
[09:13] then the organization is okay, who can deal with this?
[09:18] If we take this to the IT team, they understand IT systems, but they don't really understand compliance and how to turn those compliance requirements into pragmatic business policies and processes that will satisfy auditors and regulators.
[09:36] So it can't be the IT team. What about the engineering team? Well, they're great at building stuff, but no one's going to sit there and read 113 articles and try and figure out what they need to do with it.
[09:45] So that means it's left to the GRC professionals, the governance, risk and compliance professionals. And if you have a privacy person or a privacy team,
[09:54] then naturally that's the best fit because they're already competent in understanding these types of regulations. They're already competent in doing mapping. So inventories,
[10:06] a data mapping inventory to build your record of processing activities is the same as doing your AI inventory. It's the same skills required to do that.
[10:14] If you need to do a data protection impact assessment or a privacy impact assessment, those are the same skills that you're going to use to do your fundamental rights impact Assessment under the EU AI act,
[10:24] the training that have been delivered with what to do and not to do with personal information,
[10:29] that's the same kind of AI literacy training that you're going to have to deliver with anyone who is using an AI system.
[10:35] So that's probably why businesses finding that the natural place or the best place for that is people who already have the competencies.
[10:43] It's not so difficult to add another regulation to people who already have the same competence. But it is going to be much more challenging to get another business unit or another function to try and handle this.
[10:56] And this is why,
[10:57] naturally, it's falling into the laps of privacy professionals, whether they like it or not. But at the same time, it means there's a huge opportunity. Opportunity here.
[11:04] Remember, we had data protection laws in Europe and pretty much in most jurisdictions, some kind of laws before the GDPR came in.
[11:12] In the UK, we had the Data Protection Act 1998.
[11:15] And because it wasn't a regulation, it was a directive, every member state in Europe had their own version of the Data Protection Act 1998 from the directive that came in 1995.
[11:26] So there was laws in place, but businesses didn't pay too much attention to it because the fines in the UK at least, were capped at £500,000.
[11:36] Now,
[11:36] if the cost of the fine is lower than the benefits of not being compliant and it's more profitable to pay the fine,
[11:48] then you're not going to have a very effective regulation or effective compliance. And that was a challenge. Businesses were putting £500,000 in the pot and doing whatever they wanted to do because they knew that it was actually more profitable to pay the fine then actually be compliant.
[12:03] But the GDPR came in and said, hang on a minute, guys,
[12:06] we've seen your game. We're going to fine you up to 4% of total annual global turnover.
[12:13] And that's when businesses started paying attention. But another thing was happening in the meantime. The public was starting to get more interested in what's happening with their personal data.
[12:22] Suddenly, data breaches became mainstream news and the public is more and more interested in what is happening with data and what big companies are doing, big tech's doing with their data and is making not just mainstream news, but there's whole articles and stories around that, whereas before it was never reported.
[12:39] So we had a whole paradigm shift in terms of how much attention the public actually care about.
[12:44] And what big companies noticed is, hang on a minute,
[12:47] this is impacting our market share because they don't trust us with their data. Anymore and we're losing out to competitors who seem more trustworthy, what's happening with their personal information.
[12:57] So the forward thinking companies, for them it wasn't just about not getting fined or just be ticking the box and being compliant, but it was actually how do we show that we are a privacy friendly company and how do we use that as a competitive advantage?
[13:09] How do we make sure that we use this to make a bigger impact in the things that we want to do? How do we help us to use this privacy angle to increase our market share?
[13:19] So those are the kind of things businesses were thinking about. But now the EU AI act is coming in and the fines are now almost double of the GDPR 7% or up to 7% of total annual global turnover.
[13:30] And so this is huge,
[13:32] but not only is it huge from a fine standpoint, but if 90% of businesses across the globe are adopting AI,
[13:40] if you are not adopting AI, then you're going to get left behind and you may not have a business in a few years time and no company wants to be in that situation.
[13:50] That's not the exit plan to turn it into nothing.
[13:54] And also if you want to do business with vendors, if you want to hire people, if you want to, they all going to want to know, okay, how up to date are we, how relevant are we,
[14:03] are we a forward thinking company, what are we actually doing here? And you also have to prove compliant if you are using those AI tools. So there's huge consequences for business for not understanding what their obligations are.
[14:16] They will be not able to do business, they will not be able to win business. It could affect their share price, it could affect mergers and acquisitions. So there's so much on the line and this is why privacy professionals and other governance risk and compliance professionals waking up and saying,
[14:31] hey, we need to master this EU AI act because it's going to be much bigger than the gdpr. But also if you look at the market,
[14:38] you will see a senior AI Governance analyst role. I think it was Cushman and Wakefield published this a few weeks ago.
[14:46] They published a salary at $350,000. That's a senior AI governance analyst role. We're not even talking about the chief AI Officer roles yet.
[14:55] So there isn't enough demand on the market. And stats tell us that for every 3.2 roles out, there is only one qualified candidate on the market. So there is a huge opportunity and that window is getting shorter and shorter every day for people to lean into this, take advantage and achieve for with with their career as an AI governance professional.
[15:17] What many of us achieved with the GDPR when that first came in by moving early.
[15:22] Debbie Reynolds: And we're already seeing the fierce competition between the frontier labs where there's been the early movers had advantage, but some of the others who have come up and really surpass some of those other models and some of that is because they were making better commitments to the customers about protecting their data and not putting their information into these models and training their data.
[15:51] So for whatever reason,
[15:52] I think a lot of times the news cycles miss that point. They just think, oh, this company's up and this other one is down. But the byline there and what I'm doing, seeing and hearing from people is that, you know, they do want to move fast, they do want to adopt AI,
[16:08] but they want to do it with companies that they feel are trustworthy with their information.
[16:13] So that trustworthiness again plugs back into the privacy folks who understand the reason why people really want to do that.
[16:24] I want your thoughts about influence of things like the EU AI act,
[16:31] almost like the what we saw with the gdpr.
[16:33] So the gdpr, when it came out,
[16:36] it was funny because I was on a television show in 2018 when it went into force and on in the US and they were like, well, how is this going to impact us?
[16:46] Like they didn't really understand.
[16:48] So I had to look like explain to them how it was going to impact them. And so I've been very happy that the GDPR has had a big influence on regulation around the world or the way people think about data protection.
[17:01] And I think the EU AI act will do the same,
[17:05] maybe even bigger, because it touches so much of what we do every day.
[17:10] Actually, I just recently saw a story where one of the frontier labs, they're watermarking text in their model so that people can tell that if text was generated from their model.
[17:25] And they said the reason why they're doing that is for because of the EU AI act, but they decided that they were going to roll it out to everybody in the world because of that work.
[17:37] And so that's the type of influence that I feel that the EU is really having. And so it's having a huge impact on the way the companies are doing business, even if they don't have to necessarily push those things out to other regions.
[17:55] But what are your thoughts?
[17:57] Jamal Ahmed: Yeah, so you nailed it. Exactly. Just like you said with the gdpr, folks around the world were thinking, why does this matter? Does this apply to us?
[18:04] And the GDPR has this extraterritorial Scope, we said, hey, even if you're not based in the European Union, if you're going to offer goods and services to anybody that is a European resident, then you're going to have to be compliant.
[18:17] And so the EU actually Scope has something very similar. It says you can be a provider and you can build an AI system.
[18:25] You can be in Lagos, London or Los Angeles.
[18:29] But if you then sell that system to another company, let's say the deployer, and they use it in Europe or it touches anyone that is a European resident, then you are now in scope of that.
[18:42] So I could be in North America building this tool, have no intentions, have no customers, have nothing to do with anybody in Europe.
[18:48] But if somebody buys my tool or gets a license for my tool and they use it in Europe and there's output affects anybody who is a European resident,
[18:58] then I will now find myself in scope of that. And so if I'm a company that's building AI somewhere outside of Europe,
[19:06] we know that Europe has 450 million people living there.
[19:11] And we also know that Europe has a lot of companies there.
[19:15] So that is a huge opportunity. That no forward thinking company that is thinking about creating AI solutions going to say, yeah, I'm going to market to everybody other than somebody, other than European companies, rather than anyone that's going to use the system based in Europe.
[19:29] So that brings everything back into Scope. And just like companies around the world now ask about GDPR as part of their vendor due diligence, it's going to be exactly the same.
[19:39] But also insurance companies are going to start asking those questions going forward as well.
[19:44] So when the GDPR came in, we saw them asking about GDPR compliance and data privacy compliance. But what we're starting to see now from some of the clients we're working with, these insurance companies are now asking questions about AI governance, they're asking questions about EU AI act compliance.
[19:59] And so it's going to affect pretty much every company on the globe in some way, shape or form, whether they're ready for it or not.
[20:08] Debbie Reynolds: Absolutely. And gas companies are doing this work on the business side.
[20:13] They're going to push some of these things. It may be easier for them to push it to everybody as opposed to just somebody. So an example example I give of this to people is the USB C plug that Apple was forced in Europe to make sure that iPhones have.
[20:34] That was a regulation in the eu,
[20:37] but because Apple had to do that. So the newer phones even in the US and other jurisdictions have the same plug now.
[20:47] So that's an example to me of the influence of the EU regulation. So we appreciate it.
[20:54] I do. I like the USB C plug.
[20:57] So yeah, I think that's a good idea or a good way to talk about the influence.
[21:02] Jamal Ahmed: Yeah, the whole idea was to make it easy for you to plug your phone, especially if you're traveling like any phone should do. You shouldn't have to travel with five different chargers for every single device.
[21:10] Debbie Reynolds: Well, I love it, I love it. So I'm glad we were the beneficiary of that as a result of the eu.
[21:16] I wanted to talk a little bit about the PDPL for People don't know. A lot of times when we're talking about data privacy or data protection,
[21:25] we're talking a lot about us and we're talking a lot about the Euro,
[21:29] Europe,
[21:30] but Asia, the APEC countries,
[21:33] like places like the UAE also has very strong data protection laws that are different obviously in some ways than what we think about when we think of US versus Europe or the European style regulation.
[21:48] But I want you to tell me what's happening with the PDPL for anyone who doesn't know.
[21:53] Jamal Ahmed: Yeah. So the PDPL is the Personal Data Protection Law pretty much may introduce to the GCC region, the Gulf central countries.
[22:03] And just like how we have a European Union in Europe, the Middle east, they have the GCC and they all come together and they agree to do things. And one of the things they agreed to do was it was time to bring in their own data protection laws.
[22:17] And so they introduced the PDPL and each nation is introducing their own version of the pdpl. But ultimately the principles are the same. And if you look at the OECD principles, you can trace pretty much all of the laws back to those principles and it's based on that.
[22:34] So the PDPL has been introduced in lots of countries across the Middle East. Specifically,
[22:40] the one with the biggest population is Saudi Arabia. They also have the most economic activity and a lot of the companies are listed on in their stock market.
[22:49] And so the Middle east suddenly started taking data protection, data privacy a lot more seriously. And they've been hiring lots of talent from abroad because there isn't enough talent locally.
[23:01] One of the biggest challenges that we found when trying to support businesses in the GCC with local talent is the level of maturity, number one is in there because something like this has not ever been something they've ever had to think about in the past.
[23:14] It's the first time they've introduced any kind of laws and how personal information should be handled so the awareness isn't there. There's cultural challenges with adopting this kind of comprehensive regulation because what they're great at is, or what they've been used to is the more techn side of things,
[23:33] the cybersecurity, the standards, the frameworks. And so for them everything is pretty much what's the requirement, tick the box and can we do it. But when it comes to actual compliance done well,
[23:45] we both know, and all your listeners here will know that it's not just about ticking the box. That just gives you paper compliance and it doesn't hold up.
[23:53] Some listeners might remember the TikTok fights not long ago. How embarrassing was that for such a big company with such decorated privacy professionals that the regulator said, hey, you've done the transfer impact assessment, but it's not worth the paper it's written on.
[24:06] You just ticked the box. And so it wasn't seen as an aggregating factor. So there is no point in tick box compliance. And that's a lot of the challenge that they're having to overcome is how do we move beyond ticking the box,
[24:20] changing the way we think about stuff, moving forward and making sure that this PDPL is there to protect those citizens and the residents that live there and make sure we get that right.
[24:32] And so a lot of people in the Middle east have been reaching out to us at the Privacy Pros Academy. We've been helping them upscale.
[24:38] Surprisingly, a lot of the businesses there,
[24:42] when they're hiring, they also place a lot of weight on the IAPP certifications even though it's an American institution on a European law for the SIP east specifically.
[24:52] But they love that. They say that's a sign that people understand the gold standard. And one of the reasons they bring me in, they say we want to make sure that our program, our privacy program is built to a global standard because we've got this Saudi 2030 vision and you know,
[25:06] we have big dreams. We do want to work with the world, we want to be open for the world and so help us out. So there is also a huge opportunity for any forward thinking privacy professionals who want to enjoy the sun, who want to enjoy the safety, who want to enjoy the culture and everything that comes with working in the Middle east to actually go and support some of those businesses there.
[25:25] Debbie Reynolds: Very good, very good. Yeah.
[25:27] So I talk as you do. I work with people in like all regions of the world about privacy and data protection.
[25:34] I did a webinar about China and apps. If you want to get your app in China and the different things you need to do. I want your thoughts here because you probably have had a similar wave a lot of times.
[25:46] When I'm explaining to people they are trying to figure out like how do I navigate or how do I figure out the big fundamental differences between these different regions and laws.
[25:56] And one way that I found to explain to people is like, because I feel like people who understand data protection, especially the way Europe does it,
[26:05] they understand the six legal basis for transferring data. And so a lot of countries don't have that or they have, their list is very small. Like with for example China, they don't have a legitimate interest.
[26:19] So thinking about that, I think that's the way that I help me try to explain to people some of the fundamental differences between these regions.
[26:27] But what are your thoughts?
[26:29] Jamal Ahmed: Great question.
[26:30] So we work with lots of multinational companies and when you work with multinational companies, you find yourself exposed to multiple jurisdictions. That comes with the nature of the work.
[26:39] And so there's two approaches that can be taken. One is you can have dedicated compliance efforts and activities and documents and paperwork and processes for each jurisdiction,
[26:52] which is very difficult to maintain, number one.
[26:56] Number two, when you are doing stuff across offices, it becomes very, very difficult and it creates all sorts of compliance headache as well as governance becomes a nightmare. So that's sometimes what we see is this,
[27:09] let's try and focus on this one jurisdiction and just do things for that one jurisdiction.
[27:15] The approach I prefer is taking more of a universal approach and saying what is the stricter standard,
[27:22] what is the most pressing or what is the one that we should be using as the benchmark? And so when it comes to personal information,
[27:30] the GDPR is the benchmark. It's the one that has the most consequences. It's also the one that requires the most kind of documentation.
[27:37] And so if we build privacy programs out based on the GDPR standard,
[27:41] pretty much 80% of everything that you need to do in all the other jurisdictions is already taken care of.
[27:48] The other 20% is just small tweaks here and there. So let me give you an example without talking about China, but let's say in if we build something up to the GDPR standard and we have also exposure to California,
[28:04] the privacy notice is exactly the same. 80% of it is covered. The only tweak we need to make is we need to have a declaration or a do not share my information button.
[28:13] That's it. And you're fully compliant. Same with Australia. One other tweak, same with lots of these jurisdictions. If you build to the higher standard, then Everything becomes much easier and you have more clarity, there is more confidence in the business, and there's better communication across all the different jurisdictions.
[28:29] So that's the approach that I love. That's the approach that clients hire me because they want to adopt that. And it's definitely the one I would recommend for most businesses, unless there is a very specific reason why it doesn't work.
[28:41] But I haven't come across that yet.
[28:43] Debbie Reynolds: Yeah, I haven't come across that.
[28:45] But then also, I think in our previous podcast episode we were talking about that the GDPR is really like, I would say 70% of the GDPR was already in the previous data directive.
[29:02] So when the GDPR came out and people were like outraged about it, like companies didn't want to do it, I was like, what were you doing before?
[29:12] Jamal Ahmed: I told you they was just doing whatever they wanted and leaving 500 grand in the kitty for the fight.
[29:19] Debbie Reynolds: Oh, my gosh. Oh, my goodness.
[29:21] Listen, projecting forward,
[29:23] what are you thinking about in terms of data privacy, data protection, AI in the future? What would you like to see people move towards in the future, let's say the next five years?
[29:35] What's your thoughts?
[29:36] Jamal Ahmed: I have a very simple thought on that. I just want people make decisions based on how they would want a decision about them being made if it was their data, if it was their information, if it was them being affected or impacted by the technology,
[29:50] by the work that they're doing.
[29:52] And I think if everyone just follows that standard is how would I feel about this if this was me or if I was the person whose data is being processed here?
[30:00] If I'm the person who is going to have some kind of outcome based on this AI system,
[30:06] then we wouldn't need regulations. Unfortunately, the world isn't like that, and we do need regulations. And so that's the message. Like, that's the reason why I do the stuff I do, is just to try and help more and more people understand that, hey, just behave the way you would want to be treated yourself,
[30:22] and that's it.
[30:23] And so this is pretty much why we have the podcast, the Privacy Pros podcast. Why I do all the LinkedIn lives where I'm publishing all the books is,
[30:31] for me, at the beginning, it was all about me and my career and all praise to God. I managed to pretty much achieve everything I wanted to with that. And then my mentor said to me, do leaders develop others?
[30:42] And so since 2021, that's what I've been focused on, is developing others.
[30:47] And I got to a stage now Where I think, you know what, that's. I've done seven, I've trained 70,000 people across 137 countries. I've elevated many, many professionals. I've helped people really transform the trajectories of their career.
[30:59] What is the next step now?
[31:01] Do I just continue doing the same, the same thing over and again, or is there a bigger challenge? And then so I went back to my mentor and I said, what's the next challenge?
[31:08] And she said,
[31:09] well, now you have to elevate your industry.
[31:12] I thought, what does that even mean, elevate your industry?
[31:15] And so that I think that's going to keep me very busy for a long time. And so one of the first things I did was make sure that I focus on getting the Easy Peasy Guide to the EU AI Act.
[31:25] Get ready as soon as possible.
[31:26] With the Easy Peasy guide to the GDPR, I was five years late to the party.
[31:31] So 2018, the law came into effect.
[31:33] 2023, we published,
[31:36] but the market loved it. Since the day we published, up until literally a few weeks ago,
[31:41] it's been number one in this category pretty much every single month for the last three years,
[31:46] which is crazy.
[31:48] And so I took the feedback from the amazing people that have been sharing that they'd had that book since then. I said, okay, how can I make the Easy Peasy Guide to the EU AI ACT better?
[31:58] And how can I make sure that I work hard enough to make sure that it's available as soon as the ACT get some teeth? Because that's when people will start to reach out for it.
[32:06] And so what I've done with the Easy Peasy Guide to the EU AI act is not only does it have every article summarized into plain English, just like my first book, but this time, for every article, there is a real world example.
[32:18] And not only that, there is a section on how to explain this to your tech team. Because that's where I've been seeing the biggest friction when we've been working with some of our clients is, okay, the rest of the business get it, but now they don't know how to translate that into something that the tech team can understand without reciting legalese at them,
[32:36] which is going to make them run the other way. So for every single section, every single article, now not only do you have the official text with the summary that you're used to from the first book, but there is a real world example and then there is the actual how to explain it to your tech team.
[32:49] And the book came out on Monday before it came out, free release, it was. It beat John Grisham in the category of law on Amazon for a couple of days, which is phenomenal when you look at how decorated John Grisham is and what an amazing author here.
[33:06] So I'd never thought I'd see the day where a compliance book,
[33:10] a book on regulation, outperforms the thriller. But it's come out. Last week,
[33:14] 3rd of August, the book was released.
[33:16] It's number one on Amazon right now. It's a bestseller. Countries including UAE,
[33:21] the United States of America,
[33:24] India,
[33:25] the UK and Germany as well.
[33:28] Debbie Reynolds: Very good. First of all, I could not have been prouder of you.
[33:32] Every time I see a post that you make, I just start smiling because I was like, oh, my gosh, what is. What is Jamal up to right now?
[33:41] Yeah. You've been a tremendous influence, a tremendous force.
[33:46] You have waded through so much. You've been through so much, and so you're just a beacon of light to so many people.
[33:55] All the things that you share are extraordinary. So I can't commend you enough for being not only just an excellent entrepreneur,
[34:04] a visionary, but just a really nice person.
[34:07] So thank you for that.
[34:09] Jamal Ahmed: Aw, Debbie, you always hear me. I fill up my bucket with the kindest words.
[34:14] Debbie Reynolds: It's all true. It's all true. It's all true. Oh, my gosh.
[34:18] Well, if someone wants to get your book, they want to get in touch with you, they want to work with you, how should they reach out?
[34:25] Jamal Ahmed: Yeah. So if you want to get the book, the book is available in 45,000 stores across 200 countries.
[34:30] You can get it from Barnes and Nobles, you can buy from Amazon, you can get it from any major bookstore. You should be able to get a hold of the book.
[34:38] If you want to reach out for more, we have some amazing programs at the Privacy Pros Academy.
[34:44] The best thing to do is to reach out to me on LinkedIn. Just search for my name, Jamal Ahmed, and then just connect and let's have a conversation, and let's see where the conversation takes us.
[34:54] Debbie Reynolds: Very good. Very good. Well, thank you so much for being on the show.
[34:58] I'm so, so excited to talk to you again. I'm so excited to share this episode with people.
[35:03] So very good.
[35:05] Jamal Ahmed: Thank you for having me back. It's been a pleasure. I promise.
[35:08] Debbie Reynolds: All right, talk soon.
